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A Lesson Most Valuable

  • May. 7th, 2008 at 3:40 PM
Arty Lis
Whatever I intend to say with a story, whatever I mean, the ONLY thing a reader has to go by is my words on that page.  Those words have to be able to stand alone, without me propping them up, without me rushing to their defense.

That said, I want to link to others who've furthered the discussion on "The Stolen Word":

The Comment Thread after the story (up to 129, as of this posting.)

[info]myli_ny_sy posts on Historical Trauma.


[info]myli_ny_sy posts her deconstruction of "The Stolen Word" (there are spoilers in this.)

[info]ktempest discusses how it's never just a fairy tale.

Comments

[info]samhenderson wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 10:58 pm (UTC)
I have learned a lot from the commentary on the story, and from your grace in how you have reacted to the situation.

FWIW, I enjoyed the story.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:03 pm (UTC)
I didn't want to be the subject of posts like "Dear Author, here's what NOT to do in a case like this" on top of everything else.

And I'm glad you enjoyed it. :)
[info]shaolingrrl wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:22 pm (UTC)
There's one smart lady! (The historical trauma lady). I didn't read Tempest's piece.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:31 pm (UTC)
Myli'ny-sy‏ is a new acquaintance. A lot of good has come out of this situation, and meeting her is definitely part of the good. :)
[info]scarlettina wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:23 pm (UTC)
Good story.

I have to admit that on the rare occasion someone tells me that I obviously haven't examined my privilege, I want to smack them because it's incredibly presumptuous and incredibly condescending. And that's the reason I havne't gotten involved in the discussion over there.

Look at it this way: Art should provoke emotion--positive or negative, that's what it should do. You've certainly been provocative. Go you!

And by the way? Good story.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:29 pm (UTC)
I have to admit that on the rare occasion someone tells me that I obviously haven't examined my privilege, I want to smack them because it's incredibly presumptuous and incredibly condescending.

I actually felt more condescended to in the comments about my writing skills than anything else. In that case, I did have one moment of "Oh no, you did not just say that me." Then I kicked three puppies and felt better. *ahem*

Dear passersby who don't know me: that was a joke.

And I'm glad you liked the story! :)
[info]kynn wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 06:23 pm (UTC)
Look at it this way: Art should provoke emotion--positive or negative, that's what it should do. You've certainly been provocative. Go you!

I surely hope you're not saying that art should be "provocative" by accidentally reinforcing racial slurs against minority groups, right?

I mean, it wasn't her intent to tell a story just to incite people with bigotry. She wrote her story to mean something else, and made a mistake with it. But her goal wasn't to provoke anyone with stereotypes of Rom.
[info]scarlettina wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 06:32 pm (UTC)
That wasn't what I meant at all. If all I wanted to do was provoke someone for the sake of provoking them, I'd walk up to people on the street shouting racial epithets and start provoking a riot. Inadvertant provocation is something no one wants. And having been subjected to being called "kike" and "bagel" right here on the streets of free, liberal Seattle, it's not an experience I'm interested in sharing.

What I mean when I say that art should provoke emotion is that successful art should touch a cord inside its consumer, whether that emotion is joy, sadness, compassion and so on. The least successful art is that which leaves the consumer unaffected. In the case of Lisa's story, her art has gotten people thinking and talking about prejudice and perception. In my opinion, if the discussion creates more light than heat (though lots of heat is inevtiable), it's a good thing.
[info]silk_noir wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:26 pm (UTC)
Big big big big big big hug.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:31 pm (UTC)
Thank you. Back at you! :)
[info]haddayr wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:42 pm (UTC)
You are all kinds of amazing.

Thanks for the links.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:47 pm (UTC)
You are most welcome!

(And not amazing. Just trying to not be That Author.)
[info]ktempest wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 12:39 am (UTC)
You aren't That Author. Other people are Ignorant Defenders of That Author, but having such people around doesn't make YOU That Author.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 01:18 am (UTC)
I was watching some of the comments roll in and cringing. I almost had to have Mary Robinette break my fingers to not reply. :)
[info]squirrel_monkey wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 01:01 am (UTC)
You handled it really well.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 01:18 am (UTC)
Thank you. :)
[info]melissajm wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:44 pm (UTC)
Huh. It says I'm not allowed to read the comments.

Well, FWIW I read the story, and I didn't find it overly offensive. Gross in spots, but that's about it. ;)
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:46 pm (UTC)
Hrm. When you clicked on the comment thingie on the bottom, it didn't expand?

(It was the finger thing, wasn't it?)
[info]melissajm wrote:
May. 7th, 2008 11:58 pm (UTC)
I get Page Not Found

(Fingers and monkey poo. ;))
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 12:02 am (UTC)
Weird. I'll let the editors know.
[info]difrancis wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 01:03 am (UTC)
about the fingers and monkey poo?

Sorry. Couldn't resist. But what would that email say exactly?

[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 01:19 am (UTC)
Dear Editor: Melissa can't see the monkey poo.

The End.

:)
[info]alaneer wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 12:16 am (UTC)
I read the story and liked it a lot. I found nothing offensive in there, but I udnerstand some people are sensitive and see an insult where there's none intended.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 03:05 am (UTC)
Thank you for reading, and I'm glad you liked it. :)
[info]canarynoir wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 12:26 am (UTC)
I think you've handled the situation with grace. And I love the story ;)
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 01:20 am (UTC)
Thank you. *lean*
[info]flemco wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 12:35 am (UTC)
Hey!

I shall be giving a workover on that mss this weekend. Just a friendly update.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 01:20 am (UTC)
Hooray! (and...)
[info]kehrli wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 05:20 am (UTC)
The comment thread made me sad. It bothers me (or pisses me off, depending) how easily people tell others when they are and are not allowed to be offended by things.

(Everything else I have to say has been said better in other places. But I liked the story and had forgotten that you even said it was offensive until I saw what Paul had said.)
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 01:00 pm (UTC)
Thanks Keffy. I actually didn't post (with the title about it being offensive) until the morning it went up, and the comment thread had already exploded.

I was saddened by the comments, how things were worded on both sides, and _how quickly_ the focus veered away from the actual words on the page.
[info]benpayne wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 10:53 am (UTC)
It's a kind of a nightmare situation for an author, or for me at least... to provoke that kind of offence or reaction...

I think you handled it well...
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 01:01 pm (UTC)
Thank you, Ben, I appreciate it. It hasn't been jolly, but it's certainly been enlightening.
[info]flemco wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 03:08 pm (UTC)
Fair enough! Apologies.
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 05:01 pm (UTC)
Thank you! :)
[info]cathellisen wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 04:57 pm (UTC)
I watched that comment thread with a sense of growing horror, and realised that comment threads that devolve into train wreck dogpiles are not something i ever want to see happen to something I've written.

I cringed on your behalf at some of the stuff that was being spouted.

It was horrible, and I'm sorry you had to be on the receiving and of that level of vitriol.

*HUGS*
[info]lisamantchev wrote:
May. 8th, 2008 05:01 pm (UTC)
Thank you for the hugs and the support. Trust me, there was a lot of cringing happening over here, too.

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